The Power of Data: A Conversation with Dr Ollie Folayan MBE

Why did you set up AFBE-UK and what changes have you seen since the organisation was formed?

AFBE-UK was set up in London in 2007 to address the underrepresentation of people from Black and Minority Ethnic origin within Engineering. A lot has changed in the last 18 years. Representation of minority ethnic people within the sector has almost doubled, and we have seen more than 20,000 people benefit from our work. Listening to people talk about how our programmes have helped them secure jobs, helped them choose engineering as a career and/or navigate tricky situations at work certainly makes it feel worthwhile.

What have been the positives in this time and what challenges remain?

There has been a broadening of the discourse on diversity and inclusion within engineering. Back in 2007, most conversation around inclusion focussed on gender. In recent years EDI programmes now cover many other aspects of diversity. There is also a depth of conversation now that previously was not there. Many companies have adopted much more inclusive practices around recruitment, talent management, career progression, pay and even engineering design.

On the other hand, as AFBE works with lots of organisations across the UK I am still struck by the high incidences of discrimination encountered in the engineering  sector by competent, experienced engineers of colour. It shows we still have a long way to go and why our work is important

In this context, why is the capture of ethnicity data so important? What action can this bring? What does it say about Leonardo that they are investing in this?

It is often said that whatever you cannot measure cannot be improved. Having a baseline on any performance metric enables improvement. Numerous studies have demonstrated that disparities still exist in many workplaces around recruitment, promotion, and pay. This can often be challenging as it takes time to earn the trust of staff and to embed into the culture of a company the importance of this practice. I’m really encouraged that Leonardo is committed to doing the work and analysing the data, as it shows a real belief in a creating an inclusive workforce. I’ve worked with the team at Leonardo over a number of years and see firsthand the commitment they have in creating a diverse workforce, and their ‘This is Me’ programme is another indicator of this.  

With greater self-awareness of the diversity challenges still facing companies such as Leonardo, what role do allies play in achieving such goals? How important have they been in what you have set out to achieve in AFBE?

Allies have played an important role in our history and growth. Our membership is made up of a significant number of allies, our executive and advisory boards are also made up of a combination of active champions and allies. The ally does not only empathise, but they also see challenges of those affected by discrimination as some of their own. This, alongside sponsorship, which is the act of actively advocating for an individual and creating stretch opportunities, is critical in creating diverse organisations.

Leonardo has been an active member of AFBE UK for several years. How do the two organisations work together?

Running our mentoring programme alongside Leonardo has given some young, aspiring engineers an opportunity to learn from some experienced professionals; we saw this in our first mentorship programme with Leonardo. We continue to offer a mentoring programme to all Leonardo employees, which is self-nomination. Alongside this, Leonardo employees are able to participate in Transcend, our leadership programme designed to support career progression for black and minority ethnic employees.

Last year we also organised a reverse mentoring programme in which three Senior leaders from Leonardo were mentored by three younger engineers who are part of the AFBE network; the feedback from the mentees was very positive. I believe reverse or reciprocal mentoring can build empathy and understanding among senior leaders and enhance their decision making. There is also evidence that suggests that reverse mentoring can also support retention of young staff in a company because it provides them with a psychologically safe forum in which to be heard.

Back in 2021 AFBE-UK ran an online Transition programme with Leonardo. A student who had years before been on our STEM programme, NextGen, attended the programme and was subsequently invited to attend an actual interview with Leonardo. That student secured their first job with Leonardo and has been working at Leonardo for over three years.

If you had a genie in a bottle, what one wish would you make and why is it so important?

It would be that we cultivate a culture of radical honesty that starts at the top of companies and permeates through all layers of leadership. To create lasting change, it is important that we are as open about our failures as we are about our successes. This is what we do in the area of safety, we must get to that level of openness of matters of inclusion if we are to really shift the dial. This is why ethnicity data is so important, it forces us to see things as they really are.

National Inclusion Week 2025 – the theme is ‘Now is the Time’. What would you say to anyone reading the article on this theme, linked to the shared ambition of AFBE and Leonardo?

This is a call to move beyond statements of intent to authentic conscious action on inclusion. It is recognising that allyship is not an act of charity but action that is in our collective interest.

To quote the Aboriginal visual artist and activist, Lilla Watson "If you have come here to help me, you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.”